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New asset / extension manager

Developers mailing list
Hello Jehan, I know you've made some work on new extension manager - you've
presented some GUI prototypes in the past and I also read about some huge
backend refactoring, fixes and added support for JS and Lua for extension
scripting. How far is it? Or better, how close to be released? It's without
doubt huge task, and I understand how difficult is to work with such old
codebase and don't mess up something else, so I don't want to put any
pressure on you. Only thing I want to know is some rough estimate when it
will be done.1st half of 2020? Second half? Next year?
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Re: New asset / extension manager

Developers mailing list
Hi,

On Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 11:37 PM Michal Vašut <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello Jehan, I know you've made some work on new extension manager -
> you've presented some GUI prototypes in the past and I also read about some
> huge backend refactoring, fixes and added support for JS and Lua for
> extension scripting. How far is it? Or better, how close to be released?
> It's without doubt huge task, and I understand how difficult is to work
> with such old codebase and don't mess up something else, so I don't want to
> put any pressure on you. Only thing I want to know is some rough estimate
> when it will be done.1st half of 2020? Second half? Next year?
>

I'm sorry, we don't do dates. We don't do rough estimates either.

Things will be done when it's ready, that's it. I haven't taken the time to
work on this particular feature the last few months as I was doing other
stuff. I will continue implementing the feature. I can't tell when this
will happen and when this will be finished. I don't know either.

Jehan

--
ZeMarmot open animation film
http://film.zemarmot.net
Liberapay: https://liberapay.com/ZeMarmot/
Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot
Tipeee: https://www.tipeee.com/zemarmot
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Re: New asset / extension manager

Developers mailing list
Ok, so it's not priority... It's a pity, I think it would be much more
useful and beneficial for Gimp that other things you guys do. But, it's
your choice how you spend your free time...

Anyway, thanks for answer a have a successful 2020.

On Tue, Jan 7, 2020, 11:25 Jehan Pagès <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 11:37 PM Michal Vašut <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Hello Jehan, I know you've made some work on new extension manager -
>> you've presented some GUI prototypes in the past and I also read about some
>> huge backend refactoring, fixes and added support for JS and Lua for
>> extension scripting. How far is it? Or better, how close to be released?
>> It's without doubt huge task, and I understand how difficult is to work
>> with such old codebase and don't mess up something else, so I don't want to
>> put any pressure on you. Only thing I want to know is some rough estimate
>> when it will be done.1st half of 2020? Second half? Next year?
>>
>
> I'm sorry, we don't do dates. We don't do rough estimates either.
>
> Things will be done when it's ready, that's it. I haven't taken the time
> to work on this particular feature the last few months as I was doing other
> stuff. I will continue implementing the feature. I can't tell when this
> will happen and when this will be finished. I don't know either.
>
> Jehan
>
> --
> ZeMarmot open animation film
> http://film.zemarmot.net
> Liberapay: https://liberapay.com/ZeMarmot/
> Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot
> Tipeee: https://www.tipeee.com/zemarmot
>
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Re: New asset / extension manager

Developers mailing list
Hi,

On Wed, Jan 8, 2020 at 7:10 AM Michal Vašut <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Ok, so it's not priority...
>

I re-read my email. Nowhere do I say such thing. I consider this project to
be one of my main priorities (I'd say it's easy in the top 10 of the
GIMP-related things I want to see happening as soon as possible). Hence I
talk about it in posts, I started implementing it and so on. We have been
discussing this stuff for years and years. Priority does not mean "black
magic instant coding".
Not giving deadlines does not mean not priority either.

Unless by priority you mean throwing my family, friends and life under the
bus to get it done yesterday, because yeah I don't have any of these and
won't ever have.

It's a pity, I think it would be much more useful and beneficial for Gimp
> that other things you guys do. But, it's your choice how you spend your
> free time...
>

How do you know what else I do? I don't think you can decide that this
project is more important than any other things I've been doing, sorry. :-)

Anyway, thanks for answer a have a successful 2020.
>

Same for you, have a happy 2020!

Jehan


> On Tue, Jan 7, 2020, 11:25 Jehan Pagès <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 11:37 PM Michal Vašut <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Jehan, I know you've made some work on new extension manager -
>>> you've presented some GUI prototypes in the past and I also read about some
>>> huge backend refactoring, fixes and added support for JS and Lua for
>>> extension scripting. How far is it? Or better, how close to be released?
>>> It's without doubt huge task, and I understand how difficult is to work
>>> with such old codebase and don't mess up something else, so I don't want to
>>> put any pressure on you. Only thing I want to know is some rough estimate
>>> when it will be done.1st half of 2020? Second half? Next year?
>>>
>>
>> I'm sorry, we don't do dates. We don't do rough estimates either.
>>
>> Things will be done when it's ready, that's it. I haven't taken the time
>> to work on this particular feature the last few months as I was doing other
>> stuff. I will continue implementing the feature. I can't tell when this
>> will happen and when this will be finished. I don't know either.
>>
>> Jehan
>>
>> --
>> ZeMarmot open animation film
>> http://film.zemarmot.net
>> Liberapay: https://liberapay.com/ZeMarmot/
>> Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot
>> Tipeee: https://www.tipeee.com/zemarmot
>>
>

--
ZeMarmot open animation film
http://film.zemarmot.net
Liberapay: https://liberapay.com/ZeMarmot/
Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot
Tipeee: https://www.tipeee.com/zemarmot
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Re: New asset / extension manager

Developers mailing list
Hey dude, calm down. Where have I written about "throwing your family,
friends and life under the bus" or "black magic instant coding" ? Why are
you angry (offended)? Of course I don't know what you're doing. (only what
you expose on Gitlab or blog)

By priority I meant that Gimp team is pushing new features (that don't look
like prerequisites for that manager) and that one that I'm looking for the
most looks freezed (at least from outside). So I assume it's only your
priority (not priority of the whole team). In that case I understand that
creating something new (besides bugfixing, infrastructure maintenance,...)
takes some time. I'm developer myself, trust me, I know well how it works.

✌️




On Wed, Jan 8, 2020, 11:01 Jehan Pagès <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Wed, Jan 8, 2020 at 7:10 AM Michal Vašut <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Ok, so it's not priority...
>>
>
> I re-read my email. Nowhere do I say such thing. I consider this project
> to be one of my main priorities (I'd say it's easy in the top 10 of the
> GIMP-related things I want to see happening as soon as possible). Hence I
> talk about it in posts, I started implementing it and so on. We have been
> discussing this stuff for years and years. Priority does not mean "black
> magic instant coding".
> Not giving deadlines does not mean not priority either.
>
> Unless by priority you mean throwing my family, friends and life under the
> bus to get it done yesterday, because yeah I don't have any of these and
> won't ever have.
>
> It's a pity, I think it would be much more useful and beneficial for Gimp
>> that other things you guys do. But, it's your choice how you spend your
>> free time...
>>
>
> How do you know what else I do? I don't think you can decide that this
> project is more important than any other things I've been doing, sorry. :-)
>
> Anyway, thanks for answer a have a successful 2020.
>>
>
> Same for you, have a happy 2020!
>
> Jehan
>
>
>> On Tue, Jan 7, 2020, 11:25 Jehan Pagès <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 11:37 PM Michal Vašut <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello Jehan, I know you've made some work on new extension manager -
>>>> you've presented some GUI prototypes in the past and I also read about some
>>>> huge backend refactoring, fixes and added support for JS and Lua for
>>>> extension scripting. How far is it? Or better, how close to be released?
>>>> It's without doubt huge task, and I understand how difficult is to work
>>>> with such old codebase and don't mess up something else, so I don't want to
>>>> put any pressure on you. Only thing I want to know is some rough estimate
>>>> when it will be done.1st half of 2020? Second half? Next year?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'm sorry, we don't do dates. We don't do rough estimates either.
>>>
>>> Things will be done when it's ready, that's it. I haven't taken the time
>>> to work on this particular feature the last few months as I was doing other
>>> stuff. I will continue implementing the feature. I can't tell when this
>>> will happen and when this will be finished. I don't know either.
>>>
>>> Jehan
>>>
>>> --
>>> ZeMarmot open animation film
>>> http://film.zemarmot.net
>>> Liberapay: https://liberapay.com/ZeMarmot/
>>> Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot
>>> Tipeee: https://www.tipeee.com/zemarmot
>>>
>>
>
> --
> ZeMarmot open animation film
> http://film.zemarmot.net
> Liberapay: https://liberapay.com/ZeMarmot/
> Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot
> Tipeee: https://www.tipeee.com/zemarmot
>
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Re: New asset / extension manager

Developers mailing list
Hi!

On Wed, Jan 8, 2020 at 5:16 PM Michal Vašut <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hey dude, calm down. Where have I written about "throwing your family,
> friends and life under the bus" or "black magic instant coding" ? Why are
> you angry (offended)?
>

I was clearly annoyed, if not indeed a bit offended by the answer (what and
how you said it was not very pleasant, if you read it with a neutral mind,
you should see it), though I was still calm and thought I stayed diplomatic
in my answer. Sorry if this part didn't get through, always hard by writing.

So yeah, no problem, don't worry. I am not angry or anything here. :-)


> Of course I don't know what you're doing. (only what you expose on Gitlab
> or blog)
>
> By priority I meant that Gimp team is pushing new features (that don't
> look like prerequisites for that manager) and that one that I'm looking for
> the most looks freezed (at least from outside). So I assume it's only your
> priority (not priority of the whole team).
>

Yeah we have some team roadmap of things we generically think should go in
this or that version. And there are global dev efforts in these direction
(like GTK+3, non-destructive editing and such). But mostly development is
driven by individual priorities, objectives or even sometimes just "where
they have most fun", on a finer level.

In that case I understand that creating something new (besides bugfixing,
> infrastructure maintenance,...) takes some time. I'm developer myself,
> trust me, I know well how it works.
>
> ✌
>

🕊☮ ;-)

Jehan


>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 8, 2020, 11:01 Jehan Pagès <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 8, 2020 at 7:10 AM Michal Vašut <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Ok, so it's not priority...
>>>
>>
>> I re-read my email. Nowhere do I say such thing. I consider this project
>> to be one of my main priorities (I'd say it's easy in the top 10 of the
>> GIMP-related things I want to see happening as soon as possible). Hence I
>> talk about it in posts, I started implementing it and so on. We have been
>> discussing this stuff for years and years. Priority does not mean "black
>> magic instant coding".
>> Not giving deadlines does not mean not priority either.
>>
>> Unless by priority you mean throwing my family, friends and life under
>> the bus to get it done yesterday, because yeah I don't have any of these
>> and won't ever have.
>>
>> It's a pity, I think it would be much more useful and beneficial for Gimp
>>> that other things you guys do. But, it's your choice how you spend your
>>> free time...
>>>
>>
>> How do you know what else I do? I don't think you can decide that this
>> project is more important than any other things I've been doing, sorry. :-)
>>
>> Anyway, thanks for answer a have a successful 2020.
>>>
>>
>> Same for you, have a happy 2020!
>>
>> Jehan
>>
>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 7, 2020, 11:25 Jehan Pagès <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 11:37 PM Michal Vašut <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hello Jehan, I know you've made some work on new extension manager -
>>>>> you've presented some GUI prototypes in the past and I also read about some
>>>>> huge backend refactoring, fixes and added support for JS and Lua for
>>>>> extension scripting. How far is it? Or better, how close to be released?
>>>>> It's without doubt huge task, and I understand how difficult is to work
>>>>> with such old codebase and don't mess up something else, so I don't want to
>>>>> put any pressure on you. Only thing I want to know is some rough estimate
>>>>> when it will be done.1st half of 2020? Second half? Next year?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm sorry, we don't do dates. We don't do rough estimates either.
>>>>
>>>> Things will be done when it's ready, that's it. I haven't taken the
>>>> time to work on this particular feature the last few months as I was doing
>>>> other stuff. I will continue implementing the feature. I can't tell when
>>>> this will happen and when this will be finished. I don't know either.
>>>>
>>>> Jehan
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> ZeMarmot open animation film
>>>> http://film.zemarmot.net
>>>> Liberapay: https://liberapay.com/ZeMarmot/
>>>> Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot
>>>> Tipeee: https://www.tipeee.com/zemarmot
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> ZeMarmot open animation film
>> http://film.zemarmot.net
>> Liberapay: https://liberapay.com/ZeMarmot/
>> Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot
>> Tipeee: https://www.tipeee.com/zemarmot
>>
>

--
ZeMarmot open animation film
http://film.zemarmot.net
Liberapay: https://liberapay.com/ZeMarmot/
Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot
Tipeee: https://www.tipeee.com/zemarmot
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Re: New asset / extension manager

Developers mailing list
In reply to this post by Developers mailing list
On Wed, Jan 8, 2020 at 7:17 PM Michal Vašut wrote:

>
> By priority I meant that Gimp team is pushing new features (that don't look
> like prerequisites for that manager)


Over the years, I've heard a lot of interesting ideas that suggest that
GIMP team members can replace each other or work on each other's tasks.

You seem to be under the same kind of impression. Perhaps we should
communicate our roles and interests better.

- Mitch knows GIMP in and out, can hack both back-end and front-end code,
but currently focuses on refactoring, all things color management, and
reviewing patches coming from other people.

- Jehan has a wide range of interests mostly stemming from stuff his wife
needs for their animation project. He does both back-end and front-end work
related to painting and animation. But since plugins management is pain,
that's also among things he wants to improve. While he has a long history
of fixing bugs, he mostly works on new features.

- Ell focuses on performance and new features that involve interaction on
the canvas. He understands the back-end very well and contributes to GEGL
as well.

- Pippin has a comparatively light footprint in GIMP's source code, GEGL
and babl are the libraries where his contributions mostly go. Hence his
work directly affects how GIMP pushes pixels around and whether pixels get
pushed where they ought to be.

- Thomas Manni works mostly on GEGL operations and also has a light
footprint in GIMP's code. But his work helps GIMP provide sensible, useful,
and fast filters for end-users.

That's 5 top contributors in terms of code. Every one of them has his own
interests and specialization — an area where they shine.

There are more contributors, like Massimo and Elle. Maybe they are supposed
to work towards plugin management. Well, nope. Let me tell you about them.

Massimo is a prolific contributor of small sane patches that apply cleanly
and work very well. He mastered this art, and we treasure him for sticking
around and doing just that. We'd never expect him to do some massive work
involving redesigning GIMP, because, as far as I can tell, he's not exactly
interested in big stuff.

Elle is amazing at what she understands very well — color science. Color
space converison, LAB/xyY/etc. spaces support in the color picker and
sample points — that's the kind of work she does.

So when you are looking at Ell adding a 3D Transform tool or Thomas adding
a new GEGL filter, or Elle adding Yu'v' (CIE 1976 UCS) support to GIMP
color picker, please do not expect them to drop everything and start
hacking on something that is out of scope of their interest. This is not
how it works.

I hoped I cleared this up a little. If you have more questions, shoot :)

P.S. You did not say anything of the kind, but since this is related and
still preying on my mind, to everyone who thinks contributors should have
worked on CMYK support or non-destructive image editing instead of
designing the greyscale icon theme I'll just say this: Pffffffff :)

Alex
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Re: New asset / extension manager

Developers mailing list
Thanks Alex, that makes it clearer. Just one thing. Could you please
Copy&Paste this text to Gimp.org? You've put a lot of effort into it and it
would be pity not to share it with the world. Here it will be forgotten
(lost) very soon.

On Wed, Jan 8, 2020, 18:04 Alexandre Prokoudine via gimp-developer-list <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 8, 2020 at 7:17 PM Michal Vašut wrote:
>
> >
> > By priority I meant that Gimp team is pushing new features (that don't
> look
> > like prerequisites for that manager)
>
>
> Over the years, I've heard a lot of interesting ideas that suggest that
> GIMP team members can replace each other or work on each other's tasks.
>
> You seem to be under the same kind of impression. Perhaps we should
> communicate our roles and interests better.
>
> - Mitch knows GIMP in and out, can hack both back-end and front-end code,
> but currently focuses on refactoring, all things color management, and
> reviewing patches coming from other people.
>
> - Jehan has a wide range of interests mostly stemming from stuff his wife
> needs for their animation project. He does both back-end and front-end work
> related to painting and animation. But since plugins management is pain,
> that's also among things he wants to improve. While he has a long history
> of fixing bugs, he mostly works on new features.
>
> - Ell focuses on performance and new features that involve interaction on
> the canvas. He understands the back-end very well and contributes to GEGL
> as well.
>
> - Pippin has a comparatively light footprint in GIMP's source code, GEGL
> and babl are the libraries where his contributions mostly go. Hence his
> work directly affects how GIMP pushes pixels around and whether pixels get
> pushed where they ought to be.
>
> - Thomas Manni works mostly on GEGL operations and also has a light
> footprint in GIMP's code. But his work helps GIMP provide sensible, useful,
> and fast filters for end-users.
>
> That's 5 top contributors in terms of code. Every one of them has his own
> interests and specialization — an area where they shine.
>
> There are more contributors, like Massimo and Elle. Maybe they are supposed
> to work towards plugin management. Well, nope. Let me tell you about them.
>
> Massimo is a prolific contributor of small sane patches that apply cleanly
> and work very well. He mastered this art, and we treasure him for sticking
> around and doing just that. We'd never expect him to do some massive work
> involving redesigning GIMP, because, as far as I can tell, he's not exactly
> interested in big stuff.
>
> Elle is amazing at what she understands very well — color science. Color
> space converison, LAB/xyY/etc. spaces support in the color picker and
> sample points — that's the kind of work she does.
>
> So when you are looking at Ell adding a 3D Transform tool or Thomas adding
> a new GEGL filter, or Elle adding Yu'v' (CIE 1976 UCS) support to GIMP
> color picker, please do not expect them to drop everything and start
> hacking on something that is out of scope of their interest. This is not
> how it works.
>
> I hoped I cleared this up a little. If you have more questions, shoot :)
>
> P.S. You did not say anything of the kind, but since this is related and
> still preying on my mind, to everyone who thinks contributors should have
> worked on CMYK support or non-destructive image editing instead of
> designing the greyscale icon theme I'll just say this: Pffffffff :)
>
> Alex
> _______________________________________________
> gimp-developer-list mailing list
> List address:    [hidden email]
> List membership:
> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
> List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list
>
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Re: New asset / extension manager

Liam R E Quin
In reply to this post by Developers mailing list
On Wed, 2020-01-08 at 20:04 +0300, Alexandre Prokoudine via gimp-
developer-list wrote:
>  Perhaps we should communicate our roles and interests better.

And to be clearer, these people do not work on GIMP full-time. Or even
every day. No-one does. For some it might be an hour a two a week, for
others less, for some a little more.

slave ankh

--
ttps://www.fromoldbooks.org/ - https://www.delightfulcomputing.com/

Click here to have the slave rewarded with more chores.

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Re: New asset / extension manager

Ofnuts-2
In reply to this post by Developers mailing list
On 1/8/20 11:00 AM, Jehan Pagès via gimp-developer-list wrote:
> Unless by priority you mean throwing my family, friends and life under the
> bus to get it done yesterday, because yeah I don't have any of these and
> won't ever have.
>
And you haven't even got a bus right now :)

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