Move tool locks; what's triggering it?

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Move tool locks; what's triggering it?

rich2005
I have repeatedly had the recent problem in 2.8 on a Windows 10 machine, that in
the midst of editing a photo, the move tool gets selected and "locks,"
preventing any other action whatsoever in GIMP -- nothing I have tried releases
it, and the only way to stop it is to use Task Manager to close the application
altogether. Keyboard shortcuts to close, the X, etc. do not work.

I would truly like to know what is triggering this, whether it is a known
problem, and what I can do other than press Ctrl+S after every blessed edit. I
have seen some years-old posts from previous versions of some variants of this
but that's all I have found.

Thanks.

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Re: Move tool locks; what's triggering it?

Ofnuts-2
On 06/11/17 04:00, OldPhotog wrote:

> I have repeatedly had the recent problem in 2.8 on a Windows 10 machine, that in
> the midst of editing a photo, the move tool gets selected and "locks,"
> preventing any other action whatsoever in GIMP -- nothing I have tried releases
> it, and the only way to stop it is to use Task Manager to close the application
> altogether. Keyboard shortcuts to close, the X, etc. do not work.
>
> I would truly like to know what is triggering this, whether it is a known
> problem, and what I can do other than press Ctrl+S after every blessed edit. I
> have seen some years-old posts from previous versions of some variants of this
> but that's all I have found.
>

If that happens after a Cut/Paste this is because the active layer is
the "Floating Selection" and there are restrictions on what you can
while there is one. You ha e to either "anchor" it (merge it t its
target paste layer (Ctrl-H) or make it a plain layer ("Layer>To new
layer" or Ctrl-Shift-N).
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Re: Move tool locks; what's triggering it?

Nate Owens
The answers need to come from the programmers. - I post observations (not
solutions) from my own experience. -- 1: Some software allows choosing of
the amount of ram that it will access. 2: Some software will only access a
certain amount of ram regardless of the amount that you have available. ---
I've had this same issue with Gimp and other software through several
versions of windows (currently running Gimp 2.8 on Windows 10 with ample
ram) - Gimp will lock up at a certain point and the only solution is to
restart windows. Then Gimp will carry on normally. The best thing to do is
to save often... very often. - - - QUESTIONS = A: Can I specify the amount
of Ram that will be accessed by Gimp? If so, how? (I haven't seen this
relating to any cut/paste operations or the move tool) B: Can any Gimp
code-writers, programmers offer help or solutions?

*Nate Owens*
www.nateowens.com
[hidden email]


On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 3:32 AM, Ofnuts <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 06/11/17 04:00, OldPhotog wrote:
>
>> I have repeatedly had the recent problem in 2.8 on a Windows 10 machine,
>> that in
>> the midst of editing a photo, the move tool gets selected and "locks,"
>> preventing any other action whatsoever in GIMP -- nothing I have tried
>> releases
>> it, and the only way to stop it is to use Task Manager to close the
>> application
>> altogether. Keyboard shortcuts to close, the X, etc. do not work.
>>
>> I would truly like to know what is triggering this, whether it is a known
>> problem, and what I can do other than press Ctrl+S after every blessed
>> edit. I
>> have seen some years-old posts from previous versions of some variants of
>> this
>> but that's all I have found.
>>
>>
> If that happens after a Cut/Paste this is because the active layer is the
> "Floating Selection" and there are restrictions on what you can while there
> is one. You ha e to either "anchor" it (merge it t its target paste layer
> (Ctrl-H) or make it a plain layer ("Layer>To new layer" or Ctrl-Shift-N).
>
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Re: Move tool locks; what's triggering it?

Ofnuts-2
On 06/13/17 12:16, Nate Owens wrote:

> The answers need to come from the programmers. - I post observations
> (not solutions) from my own experience. -- 1: Some software allows
> choosing of the amount of ram that it will access. 2: Some software
> will only access a certain amount of ram regardless of the amount that
> you have available. --- I've had this same issue with Gimp and other
> software through several versions of windows (currently running Gimp
> 2.8 on Windows 10 with ample ram) - Gimp will lock up at a certain
> point and the only solution is to restart windows. Then Gimp will
> carry on normally. The best thing to do is to save often... very
> often. - - - QUESTIONS = A: Can I specify the amount of Ram that will
> be accessed by Gimp? If so, how? (I haven't seen this relating to any
> cut/paste operations or the move tool) B: Can any Gimp code-writers,
> programmers offer help or solutions?
**
AFAIK GIMP's memory usage is mostly controlled with
Edit>Preferences>Environment>Resource consumption>Tile cache size. When
images require more memory Gimp moves the data to disk. Note that this
is virtual memory, if you set it to something much bigger than your RAM
(or more accurately the available RAM once the system and other apps are
taken in account) Gimp will just swap like a regular app, so it is
usually best to set it to something smaller than your RAM.
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Move tool locks; what's triggering it?

rich2005
Thanks - will take a look at the settings... I have started checking that other
apps are closed while I Gimp - that definitely helps

>**
>AFAIK GIMP's memory usage is mostly controlled with
>Edit>Preferences>Environment>Resource consumption>Tile cache size.
>When
>images require more memory Gimp moves the data to disk. Note that this
>is virtual memory, if you set it to something much bigger than your
>RAM
>(or more accurately the available RAM once the system and other apps
>are
>taken in account) Gimp will just swap like a regular app, so it is
>usually best to set it to something smaller than your RAM.

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Move tool locks; what's triggering it?

rich2005
>Thanks - will take a look at the settings... I have started checking
>that other apps are closed while I Gimp - that definitely helps

My work is mostly geared to print, commonly 300dpi. Greeting cards (normally
5"x7" or double) are one thing, but 20"x30" wall prints can get huge - I assume
that the number of layers in a file would be a factor?

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Re: Move tool locks; what's triggering it?

Steve Kinney


On 06/13/2017 05:32 PM, nateart wrote:
>> Thanks - will take a look at the settings... I have started checking
>> that other apps are closed while I Gimp - that definitely helps
>
> My work is mostly geared to print, commonly 300dpi. Greeting cards (normally
> 5"x7" or double) are one thing, but 20"x30" wall prints can get huge - I assume
> that the number of layers in a file would be a factor?

The word "humongous" comes to mind.  Some things I would suggest is
cropping layers that do not fill the entire image, so they do not eat up
any more memory than necessary; avoid converting text layers to image
layers where and as possible; and maybe most important, delete your undo
history early and often - it uses a lot of memory.

Another thing to consider is the distance from which the poster will be
viewed.  The further away from the viewer the less DPI resolution is
needed.  300 DPI is standard for materials that will be hand held, but
200 might be acceptable for a poster that will hang on a wall.  Some
experiments might be in order.

:o)




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Move tool locks; what's triggering it?

rich2005
In my case, the files are not especially large. They are jpgs right out of an
older Canon Rebel, something like 36x24 inches @ 72 ppi, one layer, at the most
two.
I'll keep an eye on the problem and see if I can isolate a particular command
sequence triggering it.

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Re: Move tool locks; what's triggering it?

Ofnuts-2
In reply to this post by Steve Kinney
On 06/14/17 00:40, Steve Kinney wrote:

>
> The word "humongous" comes to mind.  Some things I would suggest is
> cropping layers that do not fill the entire image, so they do not eat up
> any more memory than necessary; avoid converting text layers to image
> layers where and as possible; and maybe most important, delete your undo
> history early and often - it uses a lot of memory.
>
> Another thing to consider is the distance from which the poster will be
> viewed.  The further away from the viewer the less DPI resolution is
> needed.  300 DPI is standard for materials that will be hand held, but
> 200 might be acceptable for a poster that will hang on a wall.  Some
> experiments might be in order.
>

The relationship between the distance of view and the DPI is  the
angular resolution of the human eye (about one arc minute). For a
constant field of view and perceived sharpness, distance and DPI are in
inverse proportion. In other words the size in pixels is constant. In
Photography the rule to compute the depth of field considers that the
eye doesn't see details smaller that 1/1800th of the diagonal (which
means that 1.5MPix picture wouk dbe good enough). Even doubling that you
still get a rather small 6Mpix (which, coincidentally, was the
definition of the sensors when professionals started using digital
cameras).

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Re: Move tool locks; what's triggering it?

Rick Strong-2
In reply to this post by rich2005
DPI depends on whether the 20" x 30" wall prints are mechanically printed
posters or real "photographic" prints. Photographers usually prefer that
their big wall photographs are as sharp as possible. After all, they've
spent all that money on pricey cameras and prime lenses. You know best.

Yes, more layers makes for bigger files. Cram as much memory into your
machine as it takes. Time is money.

Rick S.

-----Original Message-----
From: nateart
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 5:32 PM
To: [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: [Gimp-user] Move tool locks; what's triggering it?

>Thanks - will take a look at the settings... I have started checking
>that other apps are closed while I Gimp - that definitely helps

My work is mostly geared to print, commonly 300dpi. Greeting cards (normally
5"x7" or double) are one thing, but 20"x30" wall prints can get huge - I
assume
that the number of layers in a file would be a factor?

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Re: Move tool locks; what's triggering it?

Liam R E Quin
In reply to this post by rich2005
On Tue, 2017-06-13 at 23:32 +0200, nateart wrote:
> My work is mostly geared to print, commonly 300dpi. Greeting cards
> (normally 5"x7" or double) are one thing, but 20"x30" wall prints can
> get huge - I assume
> that the number of layers in a file would be a factor?

Yes. I routinely work with print-sized images at 2400dpi (and then make
 lower-resolution versions of cropped details to sell). But I use a
Linux system. Usually I have only one layer.

As others have said, the tile cache size matters most - set it to maybe
three quarters or your machine's memory.

Actually buying more memory is often a really cost-effective upgrade
for a computer. I have 32GBytes of RAM on this system, and for very
large images (say, 6 gigabytes) sometimes have to quit other programs
and work in small stages.

GIMP reports the memory size of the image in the title bar and/or
status bar. If you open the undo history there's a button at lower
right (in the English locales at least; in Hebrew or Arabic it might be
at lower left) which clears the undo history - this throws away the
memory of what you did, so don't do it if you think you might need to
undo what you've already done. But it saves a lot of memory to do this
every now and then, especially after making several selections in a row
or doing anything that affects the whole image, like "curves".

When you end up "stuck with the move tool" do the menus still work? If
you wait for 10 minutes or so, do you get "GIMP is not responding"
popping up? It's possible it's just taking a very very long time.
Moving an image-sized layer can mean loading the entire image into
memory a piece at a time to update the on-screen preview.

Liam



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Move tool locks; what's triggering it?

rich2005
thanks...
>These comments are correct....
>However, it is the manufacturers, publishers of the products (jigsaw puzzles,
posters, products, greeting cards, and magazine ads with their ad specs etc) who
specify the specifications for the imagery they will use. And... the licensing
agents are aware of these specifications and will therefore not submit work to
these clients that does not comply.
>Often when creating the images, I take the following steps to assist in a
better workflow to stay within the abilities of my system and software =
>1. I work different parts of an image independently, combining them (in layers,
flattening) near completion to speed up processing
>2. I save often, and will combine layers on some of the iterative versions...
if something needs to be corrected, I can go back a version without needing to
start from scratch (painful lessons learned)
>3. I have 16 gigs of ram, running windows 10, 64 bits, x64 processor. Yes, more
is better... budget allowing
> I like your suggestions and comments and always welcome them  
++++++++++++++++++++++++++

>Yes. I routinely work with print-sized images at 2400dpi (and then
>make
> lower-resolution versions of cropped details to sell). But I use a
>Linux system. Usually I have only one layer.
>
>As others have said, the tile cache size matters most - set it to
>maybe
>three quarters or your machine's memory.
>
>Actually buying more memory is often a really cost-effective upgrade
>for a computer. I have 32GBytes of RAM on this system, and for very
>large images (say, 6 gigabytes) sometimes have to quit other programs
>and work in small stages.
>
>GIMP reports the memory size of the image in the title bar and/or
>status bar. If you open the undo history there's a button at lower
>right (in the English locales at least; in Hebrew or Arabic it might
>be
>at lower left) which clears the undo history - this throws away the
>memory of what you did, so don't do it if you think you might need to
>undo what you've already done. But it saves a lot of memory to do this
>every now and then, especially after making several selections in a
>row
>or doing anything that affects the whole image, like "curves".
>
>When you end up "stuck with the move tool" do the menus still work? If
>you wait for 10 minutes or so, do you get "GIMP is not responding"
>popping up? It's possible it's just taking a very very long time.
>Moving an image-sized layer can mean loading the entire image into
>memory a piece at a time to update the on-screen preview.
>
>Liam

Attachments:
* http://www.gimpusers.com/system/attachments/610/original/NATOWE119902.jpg

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