Image doesn't move smoothly

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Image doesn't move smoothly

DaveMac01
I decided to give gimp another go. I've updated my video and run an ok pc with
decent stats but when I use gimp and try to move any image, of any size or
resolution the image lags when i position it. even on simple single color
layers. If i make a red box and try to move it the image is so choppy it looks
like Im watching a picture download circa 1995.

Any idea? I don't have this problem when I run Pixlr and when I ran my demo of
photoshop.
 

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Re: Image doesn't move smoothly

Michael Schumacher
On 04/13/2018 05:42 PM, Brombur wrote:

> I decided to give gimp another go. I've updated my video and run an ok pc with
> decent stats but when I use gimp and try to move any image, of any size or
> resolution the image lags when i position it. even on simple single color
> layers. If i make a red box and try to move it the image is so choppy it looks
> like Im watching a picture download circa 1995.
>
> Any idea?

You should describe this in a way that gives others the chance to
reproduce exactly what you got - assume that they know how to use GIMP,
but do not know what commands you use.

By following your instructions, they should have the same image as you
and be able to do the positioning just like you.


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Image doesn't move smoothly

DaveMac01
>You should describe this in a way that gives others the chance to
>reproduce exactly what you got - assume that they know how to use
>GIMP,
>but do not know what commands you use.
>
>By following your instructions, they should have the same image as you
>and be able to do the positioning just like you.

This is a screen shot of the issue. I had a 3500x3500 image I was putting
together. I opened an image as a layer and when I move it around the screen it
creates this lag. When I stop moving the image catches up. again this doesn't
happen in other programs just gimp.

Attachments:
* http://www.gimpusers.com/system/attachments/878/original/Gimp_issue.png

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Re: Image doesn't move smoothly

Steve Kinney
In reply to this post by DaveMac01


On 04/13/2018 11:42 AM, Brombur wrote:
> I decided to give gimp another go. I've updated my video and run an ok pc with
> decent stats but when I use gimp and try to move any image, of any size or
> resolution the image lags when i position it. even on simple single color
> layers. If i make a red box and try to move it the image is so choppy it looks
> like Im watching a picture download circa 1995.
>
> Any idea? I don't have this problem when I run Pixlr and when I ran my demo of
> photoshop.

The only times I have seen the GIMP act like that (15+ years across
/numerous/ machines and operating systmes) it was always a memory issue,
typically due to working on a fairly huge image with many full size
layers and LOTS of "undo" steps saved.

Fist check the size of the images you are working with, in pixels:  This
is shown in the canvas window title bar, after the name of the open
file.  If the X and Y dimensions are in the multiple thousands of
pixels, that could be the problem.

I will guess that you are using GIMP 2.8, not a development build; if
not, this may be incorrect (or not):  Go to Edit > Preferences, and in
the Environment menu (should be the one that opens by itself) and check
the Tile Cache Size item.  "When the amount of pixel data exceeds this
limit, GIMP will start to swap tiles to disk."  That sounds very much
like what you are seeing when you move things around on the canvas.  I
normally like to set this limit to about half of total system RAM, more
if the machine has a huge amount of memory, less if the system doesn't
have memory to spare.

On my laptop which does not have a huge amount of memory, I start seeing
a /small/ amount of lag when moving image-sized layers at about 2500 x
2500 pixels - noticeable, but does not slow my workflow down.  At 4000 x
4000 pixels it gets more noticeable; I would have to adjust my maximum
image size setting (same menu as above) to test at 4500 px or above...

Hopefully this will put you on the trail to a solution.  If none of the
above seems to apply, check all running processes on the machine to see
if some background process is eating up a huge amount of system memory.
poss8ible.

:o)








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Image doesn't move smoothly

DaveMac01

I run a dell with 8 gigs of ram and a 3.4 ghz i5 processor. it plays online
games no problem and again doesn't have any issue with drag on pixlr. I have
been working on 3500x3500 images on pixlr and I kept that file size for gimp 2
and it has issues.

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Image doesn't move smoothly

DaveMac01
>I run a dell with 8 gigs of ram and a 3.4 ghz i5 processor. it plays
>online games no problem and again doesn't have any issue with drag on
>pixlr. I have been working on 3500x3500 images on pixlr and I kept
>that file size for gimp 2 and it has issues.

Just tested on a 2400x2400 image and had the same issue. All i had on the page
was a layer with a solid black box. I would move the layer and is was a mess.


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Re: Image doesn't move smoothly

Richard Gitschlag
If you have the ability to record your steps on video then that could be more helpful than static screenshots and verbal explanations.  But as a quick experiment, I can confirm that moving layers can result in slow redraw times, potentially creating general visual mess (but the move operation otherwise executes normally and the visual artifacts do clean themselves up afterwards).


If you had a case where the "lag" between moving a layer and the window updating got continually worse the more you kept moving the layer, that would be indicative of a cascading event.  Fortunately, that doesn't seem to be the case here....


Some caveats I noticed:

- The size of the image canvas, layer in question, and current zoom level seem to have no impact on redraw times; only the actual size of the image window whose area is being redrawn.

- Visual artifacts are most noticeable when moving the object upwards.

- Using the Pan function (Spacebar) always results in smooth movement as it is not actually making changes to the image, just scrolling its position within the image window.


I do notice that during the move operation all visual redraws originate from the upper-left of the moved object.  Not necessarily a bad choice, but could the redraw perhaps originate from the cursor's current location within the image window, redrawing outwards?  After all, when you're clicking and dragging something, the area around the cursor is generally what your vision is focused on....




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________________________________
From: gimp-user-list <[hidden email]> on behalf of Brombur <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2018 6:13:05 PM
To: [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: [Gimp-user] Image doesn't move smoothly

>I run a dell with 8 gigs of ram and a 3.4 ghz i5 processor. it plays
>online games no problem and again doesn't have any issue with drag on
>pixlr. I have been working on 3500x3500 images on pixlr and I kept
>that file size for gimp 2 and it has issues.

Just tested on a 2400x2400 image and had the same issue. All i had on the page
was a layer with a solid black box. I would move the layer and is was a mess.


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Re: Image doesn't move smoothly

Steve Kinney


On 04/20/2018 08:08 PM, Richard wrote:

> If you have the ability to record your steps on video then that could be more helpful than static screenshots and verbal explanations.  But as a quick experiment, I can confirm that moving layers can result in slow redraw times, potentially creating general visual mess (but the move operation otherwise executes normally and the visual artifacts do clean themselves up afterwards).
>
>
> If you had a case where the "lag" between moving a layer and the window updating got continually worse the more you kept moving the layer, that would be indicative of a cascading event.  Fortunately, that doesn't seem to be the case here....
>
>
> Some caveats I noticed:
>
> - The size of the image canvas, layer in question, and current zoom level seem to have no impact on redraw times; only the actual size of the image window whose area is being redrawn.
>
> - Visual artifacts are most noticeable when moving the object upwards.
>
> - Using the Pan function (Spacebar) always results in smooth movement as it is not actually making changes to the image, just scrolling its position within the image window.
>
>
> I do notice that during the move operation all visual redraws originate from the upper-left of the moved object.  Not necessarily a bad choice, but could the redraw perhaps originate from the cursor's current location within the image window, redrawing outwards?  After all, when you're clicking and dragging something, the area around the cursor is generally what your vision is focused on....
>

Now this starts to sound like an actual bug in the program.  What
version of the GIMP, on what operating system & operating system
version, is doing this?  Is there a difference when the image is set to
RGB, indexed or grayscale?

The problem Brombur describes and Richard at least partially confirms
may be a 'known issue' or it may need a bug report filed.


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Re: Image doesn't move smoothly

Øyvind Kolås-2
On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 8:52 PM, Steve Kinney <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> Some caveats I noticed:
>>
>> - The size of the image canvas, layer in question, and current zoom level seem to have no impact on redraw times; only the actual size of the image window whose area is being redrawn.
>>
>> - Visual artifacts are most noticeable when moving the object upwards.
>>
>> - Using the Pan function (Spacebar) always results in smooth movement as it is not actually making changes to the image, just scrolling its position within the image window.
>>
>>
>> I do notice that during the move operation all visual redraws originate from the upper-left of the moved object.  Not necessarily a bad choice, but could the redraw perhaps originate from the cursor's current location within the image window, redrawing outwards?  After all, when you're clicking and dragging something, the area around the cursor is generally what your vision is focused on....

Updating the display as quick as possible after receiving motion
events, rather than rendering everything and updating at a low
frame-rate, is a known feature - not a bug. Until things are fast
enough to do 15fps of the entire viewport - for instance with GIMP
integrating with and using the mipmap based preview-rendering
infrastructure in GEGL, always waiting until we have a full "frame" to
present will significantly increase latency leading to a worse user
experience than presenting as much rendered content as soon as
possible.

/pippin
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Re: Image doesn't move smoothly

Steve Kinney


On 04/21/2018 03:16 PM, Øyvind Kolås wrote:

>
> Updating the display as quick as possible after receiving motion
> events, rather than rendering everything and updating at a low
> frame-rate, is a known feature - not a bug. Until things are fast
> enough to do 15fps of the entire viewport - for instance with GIMP
> integrating with and using the mipmap based preview-rendering
> infrastructure in GEGL, always waiting until we have a full "frame" to
> present will significantly increase latency leading to a worse user
> experience than presenting as much rendered content as soon as
> possible.
>
> /pippin

So there's eyeballs on this and nothing's broken, just a tad bit slow in
some instances due to the overhead of accurate rendering of very large
data sets remapped from Here to There.  I can live with that.  Have for
many years without seeing it as a problem.  :D


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