Fw: Suggestd enhancement

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Fw: Suggestd enhancement

Shlomi Fish
Hi Adalbert!

Please reply to list next times, see:

https://www.shlomifish.org/philosophy/computers/netiquette/email/reply-to-list.html

You sent this message in private and it was misclassified as spam (which may be
my filters' fault).

Regards,

        Shlomi

Begin forwarded message:

Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 14:36:26 +0200
From: Adalbert Hanßen <[hidden email]>
To: Shlomi Fish <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] Suggestd enhancement


Shlomi,

thank you for your answer. I encountered the problem with GIMP 2.8.22 which I
preferred to use because GIMP 2.10 came as a snap installation and that did not
cooperate with my delayed xfce4-screenshooter starter

xfce4-screenshooter -fmd 7 -o gimp

(unfortunately I use version 1.8.2 of xfce4-screenshooter which does not allow
to set the output directory and the standard output directory /tmp is not
available in the snap-installed GiIMP 2.10.)

Now I realized that I can use the snap installed version of GIMP in parallel to
the installed 2.8.22. Now put some text onto the clipboard and I realized that
your observation is right. I do not have klipper installed on my computer. I
got the message "die Zwischenablage enthält keine Bilddaten, die eingefügt
werden können" (no image data on the clipboard).

However this might have been not the right test since the older version does
the same! You may be right, that

xfce4-screenshooter -crm

sometimes does not put an image onto the clipboard although I select a
rectangular part of the screen. I'll come back to that when I have an example
which does not work wit 2.8.22 but does with 1.10.20 (or does not work with
that one).

> The problem with greying out menu options is that often the user is unable to
> tell why they are greyed out, and what to do to reenable them. So it will be
> a usability issue. A note "no pastable image on the clipboard" on the status
> bar would tell the reason. < Furthermore, GIMP will need to query the
> clipboard before displaying the menu bar or menu which will likely also be
> time consuming on your end.  

Of course one would have to enquire the type of stuff on the clipboard. But I
think that will be much faster than what GIMP does. Apparently if you had an
image on the clipboard and then copy some text to it, then GIMP still pastes
the image. So the clipboard in Xubuntu seems to be a bit more complicated than
I thought before. I don't know for sure what GIMP really does if the content of
the clipboard is "no graphics object", like some text or some table or a
pointer to an file which is not an image... Those who are prepared to debug
GIMP might take a look what happens until GIMP finally throws in the towel
because there is no graphics on the clipboard. I guess that's much more work
until it finally throws and recovers from such an event and therefore my idea
was that it is better to check that earlier. But perhaps just that already has
happened between 2.8.22 and 2.10.20.

Kind regards

Adalbert Hanßen



Am 23.07.20 um 16:54 schrieb Shlomi Fish:

> Hi Adalbert!
>
> On Thu, 23 Jul 2020 13:23:25 +0200
> Adalbert Hanßen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  
>> Currently you get the option Edit>Paste as>... even if no image is on teh
>> clipboard. Then it takes awfully long untill Gimp tells that there is no
>> image to be pasted on the clipboard.
>>  
> I've checked this, and GIMP responded instantly with that error message box,
> on my mageia v8 x86-64 system with gimp 2.10.20 and running kde plasma5 and
> klipper (with 8 GB of RAM).
>
> So it seems like a local issue on your end. Can you try to see if it happens
> in a new unix user?
>  
>> This happens to me sometimes when I want to make a screenshot but my
>> screenshot tool doesn't do that.
>>
>> I would suggest that Gimp check if there is something to paste before
>> offering any paste option and grey them out if there is no pastable image on
>> the clipboard.
>>  
> The problem with greying out menu options is that often the user is unable to
> tell why they are greyed out, and what to do to reenable them. So it will be a
> usability issue.
>
> Furthermore, GIMP will need to query the clipboard before displaying the
> menubar or menu which will likely also be time consuming on your end.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_ain't_no_such_thing_as_a_free_lunch
>  
>> By the way: Is there anythingon teh Linux operating system level which shows
>> me what is on the clipboard? I mean other than going to an app and try to
>> paste whatever is thre and see what happens?  
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klipper can do it here, and there may be other
> clipboard managers which can as well. Note that "operating system level" may
> refer to several layers of kernel code, kernel modules, and processes of
> various privileges on Linux, and they often can be replaced by
> existing or hypothetical alternatives.
>  
>> _______________________________________________
>> gimp-developer-list mailing list
>> List address:    [hidden email]
>> List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
>> List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list 
>  



--

Shlomi Fish       https://www.shlomifish.org/
https://www.shlomifish.org/open-source/projects/fortune-mod/

If the mountain does not come to Emma Watson, she won’t bother visiting it.
It would be the mountain’s loss, really.
    — https://www.shlomifish.org/humour/bits/facts/Emma-Watson/

Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - https://shlom.in/reply .
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Re: Fw: Suggestd enhancement

Shlomi Fish
Replying to Adalbert now,

On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 21:49:21 +0300
Shlomi Fish <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Adalbert!
>
> Please reply to list next times, see:
>
> https://www.shlomifish.org/philosophy/computers/netiquette/email/reply-to-list.html
>
> You sent this message in private and it was misclassified as spam (which may
> be my filters' fault).
>
> Regards,
>
> Shlomi
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 14:36:26 +0200
> From: Adalbert Hanßen <[hidden email]>
> To: Shlomi Fish <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] Suggestd enhancement
>
>
> Shlomi,
>
> thank you for your answer. I encountered the problem with GIMP 2.8.22 which I
> preferred to use because GIMP 2.10 came as a snap installation and that did
> not cooperate with my delayed xfce4-screenshooter starter
>
> xfce4-screenshooter -fmd 7 -o gimp
>
> (unfortunately I use version 1.8.2 of xfce4-screenshooter which does not allow
> to set the output directory and the standard output directory /tmp is not
> available in the snap-installed GiIMP 2.10.)
>
> Now I realized that I can use the snap installed version of GIMP in parallel
> to the installed 2.8.22. Now put some text onto the clipboard and I realized
> that your observation is right. I do not have klipper installed on my
> computer. I got the message "die Zwischenablage enthält keine Bilddaten, die
> eingefügt werden können" (no image data on the clipboard).
>
> However this might have been not the right test since the older version does
> the same! You may be right, that
>
> xfce4-screenshooter -crm
>
> sometimes does not put an image onto the clipboard although I select a
> rectangular part of the screen. I'll come back to that when I have an example
> which does not work wit 2.8.22 but does with 1.10.20 (or does not work with
> that one).
>

Thanks! You may be able to find an updated /usr/bin/gimp in a distro upgrade.

> > The problem with greying out menu options is that often the user is unable
> > to tell why they are greyed out, and what to do to reenable them. So it
> > will be a usability issue. A note "no pastable image on the clipboard" on
> > the status bar would tell the reason. < Furthermore, GIMP will need to
> > query the clipboard before displaying the menu bar or menu which will
> > likely also be time consuming on your end.    
>
> Of course one would have to enquire the type of stuff on the clipboard. But I
> think that will be much faster than what GIMP does. Apparently if you had an
> image on the clipboard and then copy some text to it, then GIMP still pastes
> the image. So the clipboard in Xubuntu seems to be a bit more complicated than
> I thought before. I don't know for sure what GIMP really does if the content
> of the clipboard is "no graphics object", like some text or some table or a
> pointer to an file which is not an image... Those who are prepared to debug
> GIMP might take a look what happens until GIMP finally throws in the towel
> because there is no graphics on the clipboard. I guess that's much more work
> until it finally throws and recovers from such an event and therefore my idea
> was that it is better to check that earlier. But perhaps just that already has
> happened between 2.8.22 and 2.10.20.
>

X.org has several clipboards - "primary", "secondary" - it's a bit of a mess:

see e,g:
https://metacpan.org/source/SHLOMIF/Clipboard-0.26/lib/Clipboard/Xclip.pm .

> Kind regards
>
> Adalbert Hanßen
>

--

Shlomi Fish       https://www.shlomifish.org/
https://www.shlomifish.org/humour/Summerschool-at-the-NSA/

Chuck Norris round house kicks doors open instead of using their keys.
Summer Glau makes sure doors are open using her mind.
    — https://www.shlomifish.org/humour/bits/facts/Summer-Glau/

Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - https://shlom.in/reply .
_______________________________________________
gimp-developer-list mailing list
List address:    [hidden email]
List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list