Feature oriented vs. User Oriented development

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Feature oriented vs. User Oriented development

Michal Vašut
I've got an impression, that devs (or Gimp core devs / management - but not
only Gimp ones) has priorities to introduce cool new features, which is not
wrong, but they forget the basics - improve user working quality / make it
easier for user.

The Gimp has potential to be great software, and certainly it's best
opensource bitmap editor at the time, but it's missing the simplicity of
commercial products (you know which one I mean). OK, I can do more or less
with Gimp as with Photoshop, but  it's bloody way (tons of workarounds,
...).

The BEST example is Blender, Blender Foundation and its projects. In short:

* Blender foundation make decision to create movie
* They crowdfund it and invite (hire?) artists and developers
* As artists works they have spcific needs and devs solve them
* Finally:
..... The movie is proof what the software is capable of
..... The devs and artists gain experience
..... The community is happy - they have improved software - new features,
improved UX, ...

It would be nice, if Gimp community make similar thing. It doesn't need to
be project, but a collection of userstories / scenarios.

______________________________________________

Sidenote:

There are also tons of  extensions and plugins, but the web (
http://registry.gimp.org/) is half-working and many of those extensions are
not working. I've seen great concept for Extension manager:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_wmx3OgdATU0/Sziww2F0t5I/AAAAAAAABPE/nxquiNEM6l4/s1600-h/addonsInstaller.png

btw. are there somewhere sources of Gimp registry site, or ERD of it's
database? It would be nice to create REST API - then anybody could create
client for those extensions, or even it's own rpository.

Thank for your thoughts,

Michal
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Re: Feature oriented vs. User Oriented development

Alexandre Prokoudine
On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 9:56 PM, Michal Vašut wrote:
> I've got an impression, that devs (or Gimp core devs / management - but not
> only Gimp ones) has priorities to introduce cool new features, which is not
> wrong, but they forget the basics - improve user working quality / make it
> easier for user.

I'll be blunt. People who don't study what we do and who come to teach
us how to do things never achieve a thing. People who get involved,
however, do achieve some great things and make GIMP and its ecosystem
better.

Are you from the former or from the latter group?

> * Blender foundation make decision to create movie
> * They crowdfund it and invite (hire?) artists and developers
> * As artists works they have spcific needs and devs solve them

We kinda sorta know about BF and what they do.

> * Finally:
> ..... The movie is proof what the software is capable of
> ..... The devs and artists gain experience
> ..... The community is happy - they have improved software - new features,
> improved UX, ...
>
> It would be nice, if Gimp community make similar thing. It doesn't need to
> be project, but a collection of userstories / scenarios.

https://www.patreon.com/zemarmot

http://gui.gimp.org/index.php?title=GIMP_UI_Redesign

> There are also tons of  extensions and plugins, but the web (
> http://registry.gimp.org/) is half-working

Not working at all. It's a static website with no maintainer

> and many of those extensions are
> not working. I've seen great concept for Extension manager:
> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_wmx3OgdATU0/Sziww2F0t5I/AAAAAAAABPE/nxquiNEM6l4/s1600-h/addonsInstaller.png
>
> btw. are there somewhere sources of Gimp registry site, or ERD of it's
> database? It would be nice to create REST API - then anybody could create
> client for those extensions, or even it's own rpository.

Are you volunteering? :)

Alex
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Re: Feature oriented vs. User Oriented development

J Albrecht
And one more thing!!! …

Mailing lists need a “Like” button.  Alex would surely receive a gazillion for his previous post in this thread.

Than-you, Alex, for all of the great work that you and the other volunteers do so that the vast majority of users of the program can benefit without lifting a finger. The post which led to your response makes my unofficial membership in that latter group highly embarrassing. I apologise on behalf of the rest of us.

> On 05 Feb 2017, at 14:09, Alexandre Prokoudine <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 9:56 PM, Michal Vašut wrote:
>> I've got an impression, that devs (or Gimp core devs / management - but not
>> only Gimp ones) has priorities to introduce cool new features, which is not
>> wrong, but they forget the basics - improve user working quality / make it
>> easier for user.
>
> I'll be blunt. People who don't study what we do and who come to teach
> us how to do things never achieve a thing. People who get involved,
> however, do achieve some great things and make GIMP and its ecosystem
> better.
>
> Are you from the former or from the latter group?
>
>> * Blender foundation make decision to create movie
>> * They crowdfund it and invite (hire?) artists and developers
>> * As artists works they have spcific needs and devs solve them
>
> We kinda sorta know about BF and what they do.
>
>> * Finally:
>> ..... The movie is proof what the software is capable of
>> ..... The devs and artists gain experience
>> ..... The community is happy - they have improved software - new features,
>> improved UX, ...
>>
>> It would be nice, if Gimp community make similar thing. It doesn't need to
>> be project, but a collection of userstories / scenarios.
>
> https://www.patreon.com/zemarmot
>
> http://gui.gimp.org/index.php?title=GIMP_UI_Redesign
>
>> There are also tons of  extensions and plugins, but the web (
>> http://registry.gimp.org/) is half-working
>
> Not working at all. It's a static website with no maintainer
>
>> and many of those extensions are
>> not working. I've seen great concept for Extension manager:
>> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_wmx3OgdATU0/Sziww2F0t5I/AAAAAAAABPE/nxquiNEM6l4/s1600-h/addonsInstaller.png
>>
>> btw. are there somewhere sources of Gimp registry site, or ERD of it's
>> database? It would be nice to create REST API - then anybody could create
>> client for those extensions, or even it's own rpository.
>
> Are you volunteering? :)
>
> Alex
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> gimp-user-list mailing list
> List address:    [hidden email]
> List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
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Re: Feature oriented vs. User Oriented development

Tom Williams
In reply to this post by Michal Vašut
On 02/05/2017 10:56 AM, Michal Vašut wrote:
> I've got an impression, that devs (or Gimp core devs / management - but not
> only Gimp ones) has priorities to introduce cool new features, which is not
> wrong, but they forget the basics - improve user working quality / make it
> easier for user.
>
>

I've seen these topics appear every now and then I usually don't
participate, because I don't have the time.   However, I wanted to chime
in and write I think GIMP is great software, right now.  In fact, I
think it's awesome software.  It's not perfect and has its bugs/issues
but I think the things it _can_ do really overshadow its deficiencies.
Here's the thing: from what I've read, over the years, the GIMP
developers aren't trying to create a PhotoShop clone or replacement.
Yes, there are similarities to PhotoShop in its feature set and in the
functions it performs, but GIMP is an image manipulation tool, in its
own right.  Clearly, people want it to be a "PhotoShop clone" so they
won't have to pay for PhotoShop (regardless of it not being affordable
or lack of interest in spending the money).

I've used GIMP for years now and haven't tapped into the majority of its
functionality.  The functions I have used and tend to use most often
work well, or at least well enough for me.  I think if people took the
time to learn how to use GIMP, the experience wouldn't be as bad or
troublesome as many complain about.

I haven't used PhotoShop very often and the few times I have used it, I
felt as completely lost and confused as the first time I tried GIMP.

Peace...

Tom

--
/When we dance, you have a way with me,
Stay with me... Sway with me.../
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Re: Feature oriented vs. User Oriented development

Michal Vašut-2
In reply to this post by J Albrecht
Definitelly the latter group, I'm using Gimp, watching it's development and
from time to time reporting bugs and making tutorials.

I know about Gimp UI redesign initiative and I've read the pages you've
linked, but don't see any progress (maybe in dev version? - 2.9, not using).

I didn't know about that project, thanks.

The thing with the plugin registry ... I have basic knowledge of needed
technologies, but I'am not skilled enough to not mess it. I don't know the
details, so cannot help. It would be useful to expose it somewhere on
github.

Don't get me wrong I respect people that volunteers and put effort in
"doing the world better", but in my opinion, the way, you are pushing it,
is not the best one.

Dne 5. 2. 2017 20:25 napsal uživatel "J Albrecht" <[hidden email]>:

> And one more thing!!! …
>
> Mailing lists need a “Like” button.  Alex would surely receive a gazillion
> for his previous post in this thread.
>
> Than-you, Alex, for all of the great work that you and the other
> volunteers do so that the vast majority of users of the program can benefit
> without lifting a finger. The post which led to your response makes my
> unofficial membership in that latter group highly embarrassing. I apologise
> on behalf of the rest of us.
>
> > On 05 Feb 2017, at 14:09, Alexandre Prokoudine <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 9:56 PM, Michal Vašut wrote:
> >> I've got an impression, that devs (or Gimp core devs / management - but
> not
> >> only Gimp ones) has priorities to introduce cool new features, which is
> not
> >> wrong, but they forget the basics - improve user working quality / make
> it
> >> easier for user.
> >
> > I'll be blunt. People who don't study what we do and who come to teach
> > us how to do things never achieve a thing. People who get involved,
> > however, do achieve some great things and make GIMP and its ecosystem
> > better.
> >
> > Are you from the former or from the latter group?
> >
> >> * Blender foundation make decision to create movie
> >> * They crowdfund it and invite (hire?) artists and developers
> >> * As artists works they have spcific needs and devs solve them
> >
> > We kinda sorta know about BF and what they do.
> >
> >> * Finally:
> >> ..... The movie is proof what the software is capable of
> >> ..... The devs and artists gain experience
> >> ..... The community is happy - they have improved software - new
> features,
> >> improved UX, ...
> >>
> >> It would be nice, if Gimp community make similar thing. It doesn't need
> to
> >> be project, but a collection of userstories / scenarios.
> >
> > https://www.patreon.com/zemarmot
> >
> > http://gui.gimp.org/index.php?title=GIMP_UI_Redesign
> >
> >> There are also tons of  extensions and plugins, but the web (
> >> http://registry.gimp.org/) is half-working
> >
> > Not working at all. It's a static website with no maintainer
> >
> >> and many of those extensions are
> >> not working. I've seen great concept for Extension manager:
> >> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_wmx3OgdATU0/Sziww2F0t5I/
> AAAAAAAABPE/nxquiNEM6l4/s1600-h/addonsInstaller.png
> >>
> >> btw. are there somewhere sources of Gimp registry site, or ERD of it's
> >> database? It would be nice to create REST API - then anybody could
> create
> >> client for those extensions, or even it's own rpository.
> >
> > Are you volunteering? :)
> >
> > Alex
> > _______________________________________________
> > gimp-user-list mailing list
> > List address:    [hidden email]
> > List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
> > List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> gimp-user-list mailing list
> List address:    [hidden email]
> List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
> List archives:   https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
>
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