Disadvantage of GIMP when compared to Photoshop

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Disadvantage of GIMP when compared to Photoshop

Kent Tong
Hi,

We're an organization promoting open source in Macau. We're considering
whether to organize some training courses on GIMP or not. Before that,
we'd like to evaluate how powerful GIMP is when compared to Photoshop.
We're not insisting that it must be as powerful as Photoshop. We just
need a clear idea on its power.

As I'm not a graphics guy, I've got a colleague to do some initial
evaluation. As my colleague has a strong photoshop background but is
just getting started with GIMP, I'd like to have the confirmation from
someone like you with strong GIMP experience. So, would you please
comment on my colleague's finding below? Thanks in advance!

Disadvantage of GIMP
- Text tool
-- Can't display Chinese in the "GIMP Text Editor"
-- Can't control indivitual text format in the same Text. (The format applies to
the whole text)
-- Compare to PhotoShop, creating text effect is difficult. Photoshop built in
text effects. GIMP can only use the filter or script-fu to create effect.
-- Compare to PhotoShop, text effect will still be apply even the Text is
changed. But you need to do everything again if you text need to be changed.
-- Can't display Chinese font in the font selection list.

- Layers control
-- Can't display Chinese in the Layer.
-- Compare to PhotoShop, managing the layers is not that easy. You can define
layers to groups in Photoshop. You can even target an action to a group. No
group idea in GIMP.


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Re: Disadvantage of GIMP when compared to Photoshop

jmak
Most of the things you are saying is true. I am not
sure though about the support for Chinese fonts.
Handling layers in Gimp is as easy as in Photoshop.
You can group them but you cannot clip them as in
Photoshop to create clipping mask.
What I am missing from Gimp is the Photoshop-like
layer effects and the Adjustment layer. These would be
more useful additions than the text effects you
mentioned.

jozsefmak


--- Kent Tong <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> We're an organization promoting open source in
> Macau. We're considering
> whether to organize some training courses on GIMP or
> not. Before that,
> we'd like to evaluate how powerful GIMP is when
> compared to Photoshop.
> We're not insisting that it must be as powerful as
> Photoshop. We just
> need a clear idea on its power.
>
> As I'm not a graphics guy, I've got a colleague to
> do some initial
> evaluation. As my colleague has a strong photoshop
> background but is
> just getting started with GIMP, I'd like to have the
> confirmation from
> someone like you with strong GIMP experience. So,
> would you please
> comment on my colleague's finding below? Thanks in
> advance!
>
> Disadvantage of GIMP
> - Text tool
> -- Can't display Chinese in the "GIMP Text Editor"
> -- Can't control indivitual text format in the same
> Text. (The format applies to
> the whole text)
> -- Compare to PhotoShop, creating text effect is
> difficult. Photoshop built in
> text effects. GIMP can only use the filter or
> script-fu to create effect.
> -- Compare to PhotoShop, text effect will still be
> apply even the Text is
> changed. But you need to do everything again if you
> text need to be changed.
> -- Can't display Chinese font in the font selection
> list.
>
> - Layers control
> -- Can't display Chinese in the Layer.
> -- Compare to PhotoShop, managing the layers is not
> that easy. You can define
> layers to groups in Photoshop. You can even target
> an action to a group. No
> group idea in GIMP.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gimp-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
>
http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
>

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Re: Disadvantage of GIMP when compared to Photoshop

Carol Spears
In reply to this post by Kent Tong
On Wed, May 04, 2005 at 03:10:33AM +0000, Kent Tong wrote:

> Hi,
>
> We're an organization promoting open source in Macau. We're considering
> whether to organize some training courses on GIMP or not. Before that,
> we'd like to evaluate how powerful GIMP is when compared to Photoshop.
> We're not insisting that it must be as powerful as Photoshop. We just
> need a clear idea on its power.
>
> As I'm not a graphics guy, I've got a colleague to do some initial
> evaluation. As my colleague has a strong photoshop background but is
> just getting started with GIMP, I'd like to have the confirmation from
> someone like you with strong GIMP experience. So, would you please
> comment on my colleague's finding below? Thanks in advance!
>
> Disadvantage of GIMP
> - Text tool
> -- Can't display Chinese in the "GIMP Text Editor"
> -- Can't control indivitual text format in the same Text. (The format applies to
> the whole text)
> -- Compare to PhotoShop, creating text effect is difficult. Photoshop built in
> text effects. GIMP can only use the filter or script-fu to create effect.

this reflects the limitations in access TheGIMP has had to fonts.  By
the time you have permission to use them and access to how they are
made, if you are using linux you will respect the people who made the
fonts.

if photoshop had been designed to respect the font and the font author,
the disadvantage would be equal.  photoshop was designed to encourage
people to purchase fonts from adobe, perhaps.

> -- Compare to PhotoShop, text effect will still be apply even the Text is
> changed. But you need to do everything again if you text need to be changed.
> -- Can't display Chinese font in the font selection list.
>
> - Layers control
> -- Can't display Chinese in the Layer.
> -- Compare to PhotoShop, managing the layers is not that easy. You can define
> layers to groups in Photoshop. You can even target an action to a group. No
> group idea in GIMP.
>
it is interesting that photoshop is considered to have better layers
control than gimp.  if you use gimp more you will see who has the real
control of them.

most people who use photoshop think it is the right and best way.  it
might be less expensive to get rid of them also and pay someone to help
with the chinese text.

carol

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Re: Disadvantage of GIMP when compared to Photoshop

Eric P-3
In reply to this post by Kent Tong
Kent Tong wrote:
> Disadvantage of GIMP
> - Text tool
It is limited.  But there are a few enhancements planned for the next
release (ex. letter spacing).
> -- Can't display Chinese in the "GIMP Text Editor"
Not true for Japanese, so I'm sure this applies to Chinese.  See
http://epierce.freeshell.org/misc/gimp_japanese.png
> -- Can't control indivitual text format in the same Text. (The format applies to
> the whole text)
True.
> -- Compare to PhotoShop, creating text effect is difficult. Photoshop built in
> text effects. GIMP can only use the filter or script-fu to create effect.
True.  There are no dynamic text effects.
> -- Compare to PhotoShop, text effect will still be apply even the Text is
> changed. But you need to do everything again if you text need to be changed.
True.
> -- Can't display Chinese font in the font selection list.
Not true for Japanese, so I'm sure this applies to Chinese. See
http://epierce.freeshell.org/misc/gimp_japanese_font.png
>
> - Layers control
> -- Can't display Chinese in the Layer.
Not true for Japanese, so I'm sure this applies to Chinese.  See
http://epierce.freeshell.org/misc/gimp_japanese.png
> -- Compare to PhotoShop, managing the layers is not that easy. You can define
> layers to groups in Photoshop. You can even target an action to a group. No
> group idea in GIMP.
Not sure about this one.

Make sure you're running within a Chinese language environment. Assuming
you're running Linux, from the command line type: env|grep LANG

On my system, it outputs:  LANG=ja_JP.UTF-8   (running Japanese in UTF-8)

To list which Chinese languages are available, try:  locale -a|grep ^zh
I get...
zh_CN
zh_CN.gb18030
zh_CN.gbk
zh_CN.utf8
zh_HK
zh_HK.utf8
zh_SG
zh_SG.gbk
zh_SG.utf8
zh_TW
zh_TW.euctw
zh_TW.utf8

I don't know which one you need, but try running the Gimp with something
like:
export LANG=zh_CN.utf8 && gimp

Now my Gimp interface looks like this:
http://epierce.freeshell.org/misc/gimp_chinese.png

I don't know how to input Chinese, so I can't show you any screenshots
for that, but I think you're best bet is to pick Chinese as your default
language when installing Linux (assuming you're running Linux of
course).  Not sure how it would work for Windows.

Hope that helps.
Eric P.
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Re: Disadvantage of GIMP when compared to Photoshop

Gezim Hoxha
In reply to this post by jmak
On Wed, 2005-05-04 at 00:41 -0400, j Mak wrote:

> Handling layers in Gimp is as easy as in Photoshop.
> You can group them

I wasn't aware of this "grouping" ability. Can you please tell me how I
would group a bunch of layers?

Thanks,
-Gezim

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Re: Disadvantage of GIMP when compared to Photoshop

Michael Schumacher
In reply to this post by jmak
> Most of the things you are saying is true. I am not
> sure though about the support for Chinese fonts.

I don't have any problems using Chinese in the text tool or other text
entires...

> What I am missing from Gimp is the Photoshop-like
> layer effects and the Adjustment layer. These would be
> more useful additions than the text effects you
> mentioned.

When done right, there wouldn't be a big diference between the effects or
effect layers.


Michael

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Re: Disadvantage of GIMP when compared to Photoshop

Kent Tong
In reply to this post by Kent Tong
Thanks for all who have replied. Yes, the Chinese problem is bogus. It works
as long as the LANG env variable is set.


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Re: Disadvantage of GIMP when compared to Photoshop

Robin Laing
In reply to this post by Kent Tong
Kent Tong wrote:

> Hi,
>
> We're an organization promoting open source in Macau. We're considering
> whether to organize some training courses on GIMP or not. Before that,
> we'd like to evaluate how powerful GIMP is when compared to Photoshop.
> We're not insisting that it must be as powerful as Photoshop. We just
> need a clear idea on its power.
>
> As I'm not a graphics guy, I've got a colleague to do some initial
> evaluation. As my colleague has a strong photoshop background but is
> just getting started with GIMP, I'd like to have the confirmation from
> someone like you with strong GIMP experience. So, would you please
> comment on my colleague's finding below? Thanks in advance!
>
> Disadvantage of GIMP
> - Text tool
> -- Can't display Chinese in the "GIMP Text Editor"
> -- Can't control indivitual text format in the same Text. (The format applies to
> the whole text)
> -- Compare to PhotoShop, creating text effect is difficult. Photoshop built in
> text effects. GIMP can only use the filter or script-fu to create effect.
> -- Compare to PhotoShop, text effect will still be apply even the Text is
> changed. But you need to do everything again if you text need to be changed.
> -- Can't display Chinese font in the font selection list.
>
> - Layers control
> -- Can't display Chinese in the Layer.
> -- Compare to PhotoShop, managing the layers is not that easy. You can define
> layers to groups in Photoshop. You can even target an action to a group. No
> group idea in GIMP.
>
>

On another list, this same issue was raised.  I was expecting allot of
major differences but it seems to be quite small.  They may be major
to some people but for most people they will be minor or no issue.

I have never used Photoshop so I cannot comment.
--
Robin Laing
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RE: Disadvantage of GIMP when compared to Photoshop

Kalle Ounapuu
In reply to this post by Kent Tong
I've been using Photoshop for a bunch of years and only recently used GIMP a few times at work.

Having access to Photoshop and being comfortable with it, I have no reason to use GIMP. The times I have used it, I was a bit annoyed by the interface... how there is no main window that contains everything. As well, some of the organization of menus seemed odd. Of course the interface is a personal thing, and it takes getting used to the change.

For my work specifically, I wished GIMP would offer more control over palettes in Indexed images. More control over chunks in PNG files. But these are specific things that I need in my work. Photoshop lacks in some areas too, that's why in the end I use up to 10 different graphics applications and utilities at work.

In terms of editing, layers, and effects... nothing beats Photoshop in my books.





-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf Of Kent Tong
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 11:11 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Gimp-user] Disadvantage of GIMP when compared to Photoshop


Hi,

We're an organization promoting open source in Macau. We're considering
whether to organize some training courses on GIMP or not. Before that,
we'd like to evaluate how powerful GIMP is when compared to Photoshop.
We're not insisting that it must be as powerful as Photoshop. We just
need a clear idea on its power.

As I'm not a graphics guy, I've got a colleague to do some initial
evaluation. As my colleague has a strong photoshop background but is
just getting started with GIMP, I'd like to have the confirmation from
someone like you with strong GIMP experience. So, would you please
comment on my colleague's finding below? Thanks in advance!

Disadvantage of GIMP
- Text tool
-- Can't display Chinese in the "GIMP Text Editor"
-- Can't control indivitual text format in the same Text. (The format applies to
the whole text)
-- Compare to PhotoShop, creating text effect is difficult. Photoshop built in
text effects. GIMP can only use the filter or script-fu to create effect.
-- Compare to PhotoShop, text effect will still be apply even the Text is
changed. But you need to do everything again if you text need to be changed.
-- Can't display Chinese font in the font selection list.

- Layers control
-- Can't display Chinese in the Layer.
-- Compare to PhotoShop, managing the layers is not that easy. You can define
layers to groups in Photoshop. You can even target an action to a group. No
group idea in GIMP.


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Re: Disadvantage of GIMP when compared to Photoshop

Olivier Ripoll
In reply to this post by Gezim Hoxha
Gezim Hoxha wrote:

> On Wed, 2005-05-04 at 00:41 -0400, j Mak wrote:
>
>
>>Handling layers in Gimp is as easy as in Photoshop.
>>You can group them
>
>
> I wasn't aware of this "grouping" ability. Can you please tell me how I
> would group a bunch of layers?
>
> Thanks,
> -Gezim
I think he means you can group them with respect to move and transform
tools, using the "chain" or "link" icon between the "eye" icon and the
layer thumbnail in the layers window.

Sincerely,

Olivier.

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RE: Disadvantage of GIMP when compared to Photoshop

jmak
In reply to this post by Kent Tong

--- Kalle Ounapuu <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I've been using Photoshop for a bunch of years and
> only recently used GIMP a few times at work.
>
> Having access to Photoshop and being comfortable
> with it, I have no reason to use GIMP. The times I
> have used it, I was a bit annoyed by the
> interface... how there is no main window that
> contains everything. As well, some of the
> organization of menus seemed odd.

I also use both  Photoshop and Gimp and agree that
Potoshop is more user friendly.
The lack of a main window in Gimp seems to be a major
irritation for new users. That you see all the icons
and open windows behind your canvas could be annoying.
I've never understood myself why developers haven't
designed a main window for Gimp yet. As far as I know
Gimp is the only app that uses this non-standard
interface. Are you aware that Gimpshop, now uses
Photoshop-like menu structure?

The time when I choose Gimp over Photoshop is when I
create special effects and textures. Here Gimp clearly
bits Photoshop. Especially when you combine the filter
effects with Script-fu. Of course, you  can always buy
extra filters for Photoshop but here I am comparing
the default settings.


> More control over chunks in PNG files.

What's your problem with Gimp's png output.


> In terms of editing, layers, and effects... nothing
> beats Photoshop.

I agree.

jozsefmak

>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]]On
> Behalf Of Kent Tong
> Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 11:11 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Gimp-user] Disadvantage of GIMP when
> compared to Photoshop
>
>
> Hi,
>
> We're an organization promoting open source in
> Macau. We're considering
> whether to organize some training courses on GIMP or
> not. Before that,
> we'd like to evaluate how powerful GIMP is when
> compared to Photoshop.
> We're not insisting that it must be as powerful as
> Photoshop. We just
> need a clear idea on its power.
>
> As I'm not a graphics guy, I've got a colleague to
> do some initial
> evaluation. As my colleague has a strong photoshop
> background but is
> just getting started with GIMP, I'd like to have the
> confirmation from
> someone like you with strong GIMP experience. So,
> would you please
> comment on my colleague's finding below? Thanks in
> advance!
>
> Disadvantage of GIMP
> - Text tool
> -- Can't display Chinese in the "GIMP Text Editor"
> -- Can't control indivitual text format in the same
> Text. (The format applies to
> the whole text)
> -- Compare to PhotoShop, creating text effect is
> difficult. Photoshop built in
> text effects. GIMP can only use the filter or
> script-fu to create effect.
> -- Compare to PhotoShop, text effect will still be
> apply even the Text is
> changed. But you need to do everything again if you
> text need to be changed.
> -- Can't display Chinese font in the font selection
> list.
>
> - Layers control
> -- Can't display Chinese in the Layer.
> -- Compare to PhotoShop, managing the layers is not
> that easy. You can define
> layers to groups in Photoshop. You can even target
> an action to a group. No
> group idea in GIMP.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gimp-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
>
http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
> _______________________________________________
> Gimp-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
>
http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
>

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Re: Re: Disadvantage of GIMP when compared to Photoshop

Carol Spears
In reply to this post by Kent Tong
On Wed, May 04, 2005 at 09:28:48AM +0000, Kent Tong wrote:
> Thanks for all who have replied. Yes, the Chinese problem is bogus. It works
> as long as the LANG env variable is set.
>
it is interesting that the one time i saw anyone use this photoshop
layers effect stuff, i was able to get TheGIMP to produce the same image
in less than twenty minutes.  that was using a little knowledge of
computer graphics (most of which i learned by working with TheGIMP).

it gets difficult to take the people who absolutely NEED this effects
thing.

it makes it look like the biggest mistake that gimp made was not to
produce intellectually imbred and disfunctional people.

these people grew up in all sorts of places and came from many different
kinds of humans.  the one thing that causes them to be imbred like this
is those layers effects.  it must be the crack that Adobe sells to them.

enjoy TheGIMP, i think that even a Chinease person can learn how to make
TheGIMP do the same thing.  

one extremely unintelligent and rude american (me) was able to.

thanks,
carol

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RE: Disadvantage of GIMP when compared to Photoshop

Kalle Ounapuu
In reply to this post by Kent Tong
> The time when I choose Gimp over Photoshop is when I
> create special effects and textures. Here Gimp clearly
> bits Photoshop. Especially when you combine the filter
> effects with Script-fu. Of course, you  can always buy
> extra filters for Photoshop but here I am comparing
> the default settings.

Yea I can appreciate the powering of scripting. GIMP is definately more accessible to developers and customization as well. In Photoshop, I hardly ever use filters. Layer styles give me almost everything I need... for my applications.


> What's your problem with Gimp's png output.

Well I work on images for cellphone games (PNG's), and there is a lot of attention paid towards PNG chunks, transparency, filesize, etc. In terms of modifying the actual PNG data chunks I use a free tool called TweakPNG to do this. It would be nice if graphics apps like GIMP, Paintshop, or Photoshop would offer control over PNGs just like TweakPNG.

As well, reducing colours from a PNG palette by-eye is something I do daily. I use a tool called Web Image Guru to do this. It can also be accomplished in Photoshop (SaveForWeb). GIMP doesn't offer anything like it... the only way to reduce colours of an Index image is converting  it to RGB then back to Index, selecting a colour limit and then letting the software try it's best to whittle the palette down (doing it by eye is better). Colour reduction matters when you need to shave off 10's or 100's of BYTES off an Indexed image (one colour removed can make the difference).




-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf Of j Mak
Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 12:36 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: RE: [Gimp-user] Disadvantage of GIMP when compared to Photoshop



--- Kalle Ounapuu <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I've been using Photoshop for a bunch of years and
> only recently used GIMP a few times at work.
>
> Having access to Photoshop and being comfortable
> with it, I have no reason to use GIMP. The times I
> have used it, I was a bit annoyed by the
> interface... how there is no main window that
> contains everything. As well, some of the
> organization of menus seemed odd.

I also use both  Photoshop and Gimp and agree that
Potoshop is more user friendly.
The lack of a main window in Gimp seems to be a major
irritation for new users. That you see all the icons
and open windows behind your canvas could be annoying.
I've never understood myself why developers haven't
designed a main window for Gimp yet. As far as I know
Gimp is the only app that uses this non-standard
interface. Are you aware that Gimpshop, now uses
Photoshop-like menu structure?

The time when I choose Gimp over Photoshop is when I
create special effects and textures. Here Gimp clearly
bits Photoshop. Especially when you combine the filter
effects with Script-fu. Of course, you  can always buy
extra filters for Photoshop but here I am comparing
the default settings.


> More control over chunks in PNG files.

What's your problem with Gimp's png output.


> In terms of editing, layers, and effects... nothing
> beats Photoshop.

I agree.

jozsefmak

>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]]On
> Behalf Of Kent Tong
> Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 11:11 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Gimp-user] Disadvantage of GIMP when
> compared to Photoshop
>
>
> Hi,
>
> We're an organization promoting open source in
> Macau. We're considering
> whether to organize some training courses on GIMP or
> not. Before that,
> we'd like to evaluate how powerful GIMP is when
> compared to Photoshop.
> We're not insisting that it must be as powerful as
> Photoshop. We just
> need a clear idea on its power.
>
> As I'm not a graphics guy, I've got a colleague to
> do some initial
> evaluation. As my colleague has a strong photoshop
> background but is
> just getting started with GIMP, I'd like to have the
> confirmation from
> someone like you with strong GIMP experience. So,
> would you please
> comment on my colleague's finding below? Thanks in
> advance!
>
> Disadvantage of GIMP
> - Text tool
> -- Can't display Chinese in the "GIMP Text Editor"
> -- Can't control indivitual text format in the same
> Text. (The format applies to
> the whole text)
> -- Compare to PhotoShop, creating text effect is
> difficult. Photoshop built in
> text effects. GIMP can only use the filter or
> script-fu to create effect.
> -- Compare to PhotoShop, text effect will still be
> apply even the Text is
> changed. But you need to do everything again if you
> text need to be changed.
> -- Can't display Chinese font in the font selection
> list.
>
> - Layers control
> -- Can't display Chinese in the Layer.
> -- Compare to PhotoShop, managing the layers is not
> that easy. You can define
> layers to groups in Photoshop. You can even target
> an action to a group. No
> group idea in GIMP.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gimp-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
>
http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
> _______________________________________________
> Gimp-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
>
http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
>

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Re: Re: Disadvantage of GIMP when compared to Photoshop

jmak
In reply to this post by Kent Tong

--- Carol Spears <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wed, May 04, 2005 at 09:28:48AM +0000, Kent Tong
> wrote:
> > Thanks for all who have replied. Yes, the Chinese
> problem is bogus. It works
> > as long as the LANG env variable is set.
> >
> it is interesting that the one time i saw anyone use
> this photoshop
> layers effect stuff, i was able to get TheGIMP to
> produce the same image
> in less than twenty minutes.  that was using a
> little knowledge of
> computer graphics (most of which i learned by
> working with TheGIMP).
>
 Carol,
You are right that there are ways of working around
solutions, but this is not the point. In reality, it
seldom happens, if ever, that you come up with an
idea, then sit down in front of your computer and
realize it in one shot.  Rather, artwork, even the
simplest ones like web page buttons are the result of
experimentation. And this is where the Adjustment
layer and the layer effects come in. Using them you
can experiment with various settings without changing
the set up of your layer structure. In addition, you
can edit your artwork, even months or years after
finishing it, simply by altering the Adjustment layer
or changing the layer effects parameters. For
instance, if I decide at some point that don't want
drop shadows anymore, I simply click on the layer
effect representing the shadow and I turn it off, or
add other effect if I want to. By the way Macromedia
Fireworks has similar tools but their implementation
is totally different; they call them Live Effects.
These are extremely useful tools that's why graphic
artists like them; they allow an efficient and
economical way of creating artwork. I think the Gimp
would benefit a great deal from similar features.

Regards,
jozsefmak
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
>
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Re: Re: Disadvantage of GIMP when compared to Photoshop

Tom Williams
j Mak wrote:

> Using them you
> can experiment with various settings without changing
> the set up of your layer structure. In addition, you
> can edit your artwork, even months or years after
> finishing it, simply by altering the Adjustment layer
> or changing the layer effects parameters. For
> instance, if I decide at some point that don't want
> drop shadows anymore, I simply click on the layer
> effect representing the shadow and I turn it off, or
> add other effect if I want to.

I'm not a PhotoShop user so please excuse the question but how does your example
*not* change the setup of the layer structure?

If I add a drop shadow to something in Gimp, the drop shadow is in a layer an I
show or hide.  How is that different from the "Adjustment layer" you describe?
I'm sure it is but I don't know how it differs.  :)

Peace...

Tom
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Re: Re: Disadvantage of GIMP when compared to Photoshop

Gezim Hoxha
On Wed, 2005-05-04 at 21:59 -0700, Tom Williams wrote:

> If I add a drop shadow to something in Gimp, the drop shadow is in a layer an I
> show or hide.  How is that different from the "Adjustment layer" you describe?
> I'm sure it is but I don't know how it differs.  :)

The drop shadow, I think, was just an example. What if, instead, I
wanted to make a bevel depth of a button deeper? The layers wouldn't
help me out, would they? In photoshop however, all I'd have to do is
drag a slider!

-Gezim

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RE: Re: Disadvantage of GIMP when compared to Photoshop

Kalle Ounapuu
In reply to this post by Kent Tong
Yea, that's the whole idea.

Layer effects/styles save you from having to re-create your effects all the the time... plus everything is cleaner because the "effect" is generated in real-time.



-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf Of Gezim
Hoxha
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 4:43 AM
To: gimp user
Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] Re: Disadvantage of GIMP when compared to
Photoshop


On Wed, 2005-05-04 at 21:59 -0700, Tom Williams wrote:

> If I add a drop shadow to something in Gimp, the drop shadow is in a layer an I
> show or hide.  How is that different from the "Adjustment layer" you describe?
> I'm sure it is but I don't know how it differs.  :)

The drop shadow, I think, was just an example. What if, instead, I
wanted to make a bevel depth of a button deeper? The layers wouldn't
help me out, would they? In photoshop however, all I'd have to do is
drag a slider!

-Gezim

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Re: Re: Disadvantage of GIMP when compared to Photoshop

Tom Williams
In reply to this post by Gezim Hoxha
Gezim Hoxha wrote:
 >
> The drop shadow, I think, was just an example. What if, instead, I
> wanted to make a bevel depth of a button deeper? The layers wouldn't
> help me out, would they? In photoshop however, all I'd have to do is
> drag a slider!

Gotcha.  :)

Peace...

Tom
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Re: Re: Disadvantage of GIMP when compared to Photoshop

"Rikard Johnels"
In reply to this post by jmak
On Thursday 05 May 2005 06.16, j Mak wrote:

> --- Carol Spears <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On Wed, May 04, 2005 at 09:28:48AM +0000, Kent Tong
> >
> > wrote:
> > > Thanks for all who have replied. Yes, the Chinese
> >
> > problem is bogus. It works
> >
> > > as long as the LANG env variable is set.
> >
> > it is interesting that the one time i saw anyone use
> > this photoshop
> > layers effect stuff, i was able to get TheGIMP to
> > produce the same image
> > in less than twenty minutes.  that was using a
> > little knowledge of
> > computer graphics (most of which i learned by
> > working with TheGIMP).
>
>  Carol,
> You are right that there are ways of working around
> solutions, but this is not the point. In reality, it
> seldom happens, if ever, that you come up with an
> idea, then sit down in front of your computer and
> realize it in one shot.  Rather, artwork, even the
> simplest ones like web page buttons are the result of
> experimentation. And this is where the Adjustment
> layer and the layer effects come in. Using them you
> can experiment with various settings without changing
> the set up of your layer structure. In addition, you
> can edit your artwork, even months or years after
> finishing it, simply by altering the Adjustment layer
> or changing the layer effects parameters. For
> instance, if I decide at some point that don't want
> drop shadows anymore, I simply click on the layer
> effect representing the shadow and I turn it off, or
> add other effect if I want to. By the way Macromedia
> Fireworks has similar tools but their implementation
> is totally different; they call them Live Effects.
> These are extremely useful tools that's why graphic
> artists like them; they allow an efficient and
> economical way of creating artwork. I think the Gimp
> would benefit a great deal from similar features.
>
> Regards,
> jozsefmak
>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Gimp-user mailing list
> > [hidden email]
>
> http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
> _______________________________________________
> Gimp-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user

Thats one of the problems here:
Gimp which is fairly young is compared to an OLDtimer as Photoshop who's been
around for ages!
Of course graphic artists use photoshop. Its was the only thing available a
few years back with any kind of usefullness.
Its the same situation as with GNU/Linux itself. It took a few years of
collaborate work to get it up to (and even beyond) par with MS Windows.
Gimp is developing rather rapidly and as far as i can see, steadily in the
same direction. Giv it a little more time and you'll have a piece of software
that will exceed even the oldie Photoshop.

In lieu of the fact that Gimp and most of the open source software is on "free
time" basis, i'd say Gimp is a KILLER application.
And i am sure that it will continue to develop.

Just my two cents worth...
--

         /Rikard

" Sharing knowledge is the most fundamental act of friendship.
Because it is a way you can give something without loosing something."
                -R. Stallman

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Re: Disadvantage of GIMP when compared to Photoshop

Bugzilla from horkana@maths.tcd.ie
In reply to this post by Kent Tong

On Wed, 4 May 2005, Kent Tong wrote:

> Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 03:10:33 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Kent Tong <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Gimp-user] Disadvantage of GIMP when compared to Photoshop
>
> Hi,
>
> We're an organization promoting open source in Macau. We're considering
> whether to organize some training courses on GIMP or not. Before that,
> we'd like to evaluate how powerful GIMP is when compared to Photoshop.

> We're not insisting that it must be as powerful as Photoshop. We just
> need a clear idea on its power.

I'll try and keep this factual and give you information to work with.

The scripting infrastructure and availabity of source code is a big factor
in making the GNU Image Manipulation Program powerful.  It is possible to
do batch processing of images but usually people recommend using a tool
like ImageMagick instead.

Adobe Photoshop also has scripting in the form of Actions.  Actions can be
recorded and played back which is quite powerful for users but developers
will probably find that Script-Fu gives them more control as they can
directly edit the files.  (I believe they also have a Python SDK but I'm
having difficulty finding it.)

One of the things I've noticed is that Adobe Photoshop (and the PSD file
format) does not allow Indexed images with multiple layers.  If you save
to any format other than XCF you cannot be sure all features will be
supported.

There is no version of Adobe Photoshop for Linux (or any Unix with the
possible exception of Mac OS X depending on how you look at it) and
although Adobe Photoshop version 7 has been made to work with Wine
http://winehq.com there were problems getting more recent versions to
work.


Many users with dual-head setups say they much prefer having seperate
windows and use one screen for the image and put the palettes on a
seperate window.

Some of the people who do not like how the GIMP manages windows make use
of the Deweirdifyer to give them a back window (and others use Xnest, or
multiple workspaces)
http://registry.gimp.org/plugin?id=3892

If you are using the GIMP on windows (and this only works on the windows
version) you can get PSPI which is a plugin which allows some types of
third party Adobe Photoshop plugins to work with the GIMP.

> As I'm not a graphics guy, I've got a colleague to do some initial
> evaluation. As my colleague has a strong photoshop background but is
> just getting started with GIMP, I'd like to have the confirmation from
> someone like you with strong GIMP experience. So, would you please
> comment on my colleague's finding below? Thanks in advance!

Your colleague might have a more comfortable experience if he used the
Photoshop style keybindings for the GIMP (replace the menurc file with the
psmenurc) but in the long run that might be counterproductive if you
really want to learn how to use the program.

The GimpShop project may also be of interest to your colleague but
hopefully in the long run the best ideas from GimpShop will be
incorporated back in to the GNU Image manipulation program.
http://plasticbugs.com/index.php?p=241


> -- Compare to PhotoShop, creating text effect is difficult. Photoshop built in
> text effects. GIMP can only use the filter or script-fu to create effect.
> -- Compare to PhotoShop, text effect will still be apply even the Text is
> changed. But you need to do everything again if you text need to be changed.
> -- Can't display Chinese font in the font selection list.
>

> - Layers control
> -- Can't display Chinese in the Layer.
> -- Compare to PhotoShop, managing the layers is not that easy. You can define
> layers to groups in Photoshop. You can even target an action to a group. No
> group idea in GIMP.

Some bug reports and requests relevant to Layer management

Add support for Photoshop Styles and adjustment layers
http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=79025

Add a 'lock' flag per layer to protect it
http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=61019

Add support for layer trees or layer groups
http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86337

There are many suggestions in Bugzilla and if you can get your colleague
to take a look at the list of open requests you should be able to a
reasonably good idea of some of the features users are already asking for
and perhaps recognise some of them from Adobe Photoshop.

The GIMP changes all the time.  You should make sure to get the latest
version (compile from CVS if possible) and install extra functionality
like gimp-python or gimp-perl or the gimp animation package and extra
files like gimp-help gimp-data-extra to make sure you are doing a full and
fair evaluation (it could take a while).

Sincerely

Alan Horkan

Inkscape http://inkscape.org
Open Clip Art http://OpenClipArt.org

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